—— YOASOBI has been active in efforts to integrate the physical and virtual worlds since their debut in 2019-for instance, releasing mixed reality (MR) content in collaboration with the VIRTUAL SHIBUYA streaming platform authorized by Shibuya Ward in Tokyo in 2020, and using 3D video to create immersive experiences for their most recent tour, ZEPP TOUR 2024 "POP OUT." In forecasting the future entertainment over the next decade, how do you see the value that such advanced experiences will bring?

Yohei Yashiro: To use live concerts as an example, I feel that the physical expression of music is becoming more valuable after the COVID-19 pandemic. In other words, that there is great meaning in having a large number of people gather in one place to share in the same moment and the same experience. I think in that sense, the physical value of the concert experience will be unshakable over the next decade.

However, there could be significant changes in the processes that go into creating these experiences, and in usability on the part of the audience. Integration with the virtual could resolve the capacity constraints a venue may have, for instance, or virtual technologies may be able to provide the audience with a perfect view to overlook the stage, in a way that feels real. In any case, it seems to me that technologies that could introduce more hybrid experiences, incorporating a metaverse-like world, will become gradually more common in various aspects of artist performances.

Kai Kamata: I was personally surprised by the Sphere, a large arena that opened in Las Vegas in 2023. As the name suggests, the arena is spherical in shape, with the entirety of it covered in LED panels, and a design that allows for the layout to be changed dramatically. The way the space is used greatly expands the possibilities for artistic expression, and has the power to motivate artists to want to perform in that venue, and draw out their creativity. I felt that the synergy between the space and the creativity of these artists would accelerate this new trend we are discussing.

—— What you're saying is that, when combined with technology, music experience will become more diverse and immersive.

Yashiro: The important thing is not to be obsessed with technology supremacy. And to figure out how to manifest the kind of artistic expression an artist wants to create, as well as what to do to satisfy customers and make them want to watch again-how best to combine the two. With the current technological constraints, the production at ZEPP TOUR 2024 "POP OUT" using 3D glasses was just barely possible only because the venue fit only a couple thousand people. Venue capacity in Japan was about 2,000, and in Los Angeles about 5,000. We aimed first to make this happen in all venues in Japan, and after getting good feedback from there, were also able to make it happen in the U.S. I think what is important is the process of making these repeated efforts, always thinking about what we can do the next time around.

Kamata: It comes down essentially to how best we can expand the possibilities of concerts in a way that transcends language or locations. I think we were able to achieve a deeper enjoyment of the concert by combining the music with a sense of excitement, even if there wasn't a common understanding when it came to the language. I think in that sense, there is a very high level of affinity between technology and music. There is still so much potential when it comes to the immersive-ness of experiencing something live, and I think there is great value in continuing with this approach and taking on these challenges.

With that in mind, it seems inevitable that the physical interaction between artist and audience will only continue to become more valuable in the future, even if with virtual environments like Epic Games' Fortnite in which thousands to tens of thousands of people can take part in the same experience, will have matured further. I also believe that a future is coming in which artists are able to express their ideas more freely, galvanized by the growing number of options for combining their music with the virtual.

Yashiro: There is the possibility that current distinctions between the physical and the virtual will change in the next decade or two. This would mean that the elements that make a real-life concert great could well be delivered to millions or tens of millions of people in the future, well beyond the capacity of a physical venue. There is, of course, the potential for simulated experiences that go beyond the limitations of the human senses and nerves, but the creations of the children who will grow up interacting with these experiences, the creations of the artists of the future, will I think be far more interesting than we can even imagine.

—— How do you think these circumstances will change the relationship between the artist and fans, or amongst the fans themselves, at concerts?

Kamata: In touring Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Singapore, Indonesia, and other parts of Asia for the YOASOBI ASIA TOUR 2023-2024, we were witness to the formation of a lot of spontaneous communities. Despite there still being a considerable discrepancy between the amount of information available to Japanese fans and fans overseas, we felt this sense of positivity and enthusiasm from the fans, who were thinking so seriously about the ways in which they could further support YOASOBI. I think making the dissemination of information more seamless between Japan and the wider world will bring further excitement to the activities of these fan communities.

Yashiro: Recently, we've been seeing changes in the way fans interact on social media. In the past, accounts on social media were relatively more linked to the real-life individual. But nowadays, it's not uncommon to see young people in their teens and 20s using different accounts or personalities specifically to support YOASOBI or King Gnu, for instance, in ways more specific than even just a work or hobby account-and doing so as a natural extension of their social media activities. If this development were to be implemented in the metaverse, I think fan personalities would diversify even further, and fan communities will find themselves in a completely new state of being.

The trend in the 2010s to early 2020s has been the maturation of user-generated content (UGC) on social media and other platforms, and the growing influence it has had on the creation of hit songs. YOASOBI is one of the artists that became popular in this sort of environment. Now, when thinking about the difference between UGC and professional-generated content (PGC), the major difference as of now seems to be quality. If this discrepancy in quality were to be eliminated through technological advancements, the relationship between artists and fans may no longer be as simple as one side providing the content, and the other receiving it. This would be the second phase of UGC, and combined with technologies like AI and the blockchain, I think it will be key to the advancement of this area over the next decade.

—— Ayase, YOASOBI's composer, was also originally a vocaloid producer that created UGC. Would you say that, in the music company, the role in discovering and nurturing such talent will become more important?

Yashiro: I think this depends on the size and nature of the project. Whether we're pursuing something at the highest level of quality and created with professional skills, or whether we're presenting a worldview that customers can share in, and heightening the level of freedom they have to participate in it, and so on. Either way, efforts to incorporate UGC will absolutely be necessary, and we ourselves will also need to reconsider where we stand in our position between artists and users, and the degree of control we'll need to exercise.

Masuda: Let's say for instance that a new song is created through UGC. If the creator's name is credited and rights are properly established, there won't be any more need to differentiate between users and artists. There are currently methods being developed to clearly state a creator's name and guarantee rights even for digital productions, through means like the blockchain. Moreover, in music there's also a production method called sampling, and I think if this methodology were to be implemented officially, it would lead to very interesting possibilities for artistic expression. At present, however, there are differences in copyrights and other laws between countries and regions, and it's true that there are still significant obstacles when it comes to producing collaborative works through official means on social media. But I do think there will come a time when this sort of activity will explode in popularity, perhaps when factors like the legal framework are taken care of.

—— Ms. Masuda, you worked previously at SMEJ and now work at The Orchard Japan, where you support artists such as YOASOBI in various ways, including distribution, data analysis and rights management. How do you think support for artists and creators will change moving forward?

Masuda: One of The Orchard's strengths is that we have offices around the world, and are able to keep up with information from each region in a timely manner. But even then, you do need to actually go to a region and experience what it is like there to know what local fans are doing. This was true as well for YOASOBI, with the tour allowing us to see the fans in each region with much more clarity. And whereas before it was a given that artists would have to move overseas to try to find success internationally, what I sensed was the emergence of a new path, a massive new opportunity, for artists. But how best to use this global network to expand the possibilities for artists? There are a variety of approaches, but I feel that it's the Kando (emotion) gained through real-life experiences that will be the key to this next phase.

—— We now live in a world where advancements in digital technology have allowed even independent artists to distribute their songs out into the world. Going forward, how do you think this will change the ways in which new artists are discovered or the support they are given?

Masuda: Certainly, there are so many more things an artist can do today, from producing songs to promoting their work to fans in various regions and countries, but that also means there is more that must be done. Decisions have to be made about whether they want to control the entire thing themselves, or concentrate on artistic expression. Or, whether they want to deliver more niche music little by little to fans in certain areas, or deliver their music to as many people as possible all over the world. I think this will come down to the artist, and the ways in which we distribute their works, and the ways in which we support them, will become more diverse as a result.

Yashiro: The reality in the work of talent discovery is that there are aspects of it that cannot be determined through data. It is possible, technologically speaking, to get AI to analyze artist reputations on social media, and determine which one looks promising. But I don't think that will get the artist to want to work with you. In my personal experience, the important thing when working with an artist is, of course, the existence of trust, but also whether or not you are able to share the same goals and the same motivation to do what must be done.

Kamata: When you think about how people come to pay attention to an artist in this day and age, it is undeniable the enormity of the role that social media plays. People are exposed to songs and videos on social media, and as they get deeper into the content, find themselves wanting to go to a concert. So, I personally also try to pay as much attention to social media as possible, and when I find an artist I like, I go to their concert, and open a line of communication with them based on my own experience. This is the same process by which customers become fans.

Yashiro: I also think the breadth and techniques used in artistic expression is expanding in a way we've never seen before. Take Creepy Nuts, for example. R-Shitei is a rapper and DJ Matsunaga is a DJ, but nowadays they are active in fields like variety shows and acting. The more sincere a person's approach to making things, the more qualities they possess that allow them to win people's hearts from various different angles. I think it is important to consider how we can make the most out of their strengths, and think constantly about the possibilities ahead.

—— Sony Group has diverse business domains, not just music but also gaming, pictures, anime, and more. YOASOBI seems like a role model in exploring the development of trans-media IPs, such as anime characters appearing in gaming or movies, or in location-based entertainment (LBE) like the kind that Ms. Masuda helped operate and provide music for in her time at SMEJ. What do you think of the possibilities moving forward?

Yashiro: YOASOBI did start off with a project to turn novels from the novel sharing website monogatary.com into music, and a major part of their success has been collaborations with other kinds of content, such as with "Idol" and the TV anime 【OSHI NO KO】. What makes this difficult, however, is that cross-industry efforts in Japan are mainly a combination of different business entities, which means major obstacles in terms of rights management. YOASOBI has found great success through their willingness to have others diffuse their work to those in various other areas, not limited to UGC. But at least in Japan currently, this also puts them at risk of having their rights dispersed as well, to a variety of different areas. I also think, if we are to integrate content from a variety of different areas together in the form of say, a theme park, the Sony Group will need to take the lead and be ready to take charge of the overall project.

Masuda: While the combination of the physical and virtual can expand the scale of a business, the difficult part is how this can be adapted and incorporated into LBE. The major advantage with the LBE adaptation of a certain content IP that I was involved was that the IP had been translated into various languages throughout the world over the decades. LBEs inevitably cost an enormous amount of money, which means there will be important questions about how we can provide customers with the most variety of ways to enjoy themselves. I'm excited to see how we'll be able to use technology to expand that specific area.

Kamata: When you think about how artists and fans interact in the area of music, I think current options are limited-in many cases, all you can do is either listen to the songs, or go to their live concerts. Japan is unique in that respect, in that it is one of the few countries in the world where CD stores still exist on a relatively large scale, and I think they are important as a sort of "middle ground" between recorded music and live concerts. I think we would be able to use these stores as physical space for interactions between artists and fans, and also linking it to various kinds of Sony Group content and technologies, from anime and gaming to efforts to connect the real and the virtual. One day it can be a gathering space for upcoming talents from various entertainment genres.

Yashiro: You're right that CD stores are closer to our everyday lives than the extraordinary experience that is things like live concerts and theme parks. I think that it could be a source of more active communication, as a location that people could visit in their daily lives, whether physically or virtually.

Masuda: Encounters where people gather and are able to interact with one another face-to-face, such as when fans come together to watch the same live viewing, lead to more intense and meaningful experiences. I personally received a lot of recommendations from store staff at CD shops as a teenager, and I think being able to share information with the other customers was a big part of that experience. Nowadays, online creators connect online, create works in areas throughout Japan, and share them online. It would be nice if they had somewhere physical they could go to to interact face-to-face and learn from one another, instead of only on social media.

Sony's brand power has been built upon years and years of trust, and if we were to put more focus on education in the future, I think parents would feel safe entrusting us with their children. I want Sony to utilize its entertainment capabilities and global network for these sorts of settings. I believe this will naturally lead to unique developments that transcend the typical boundaries.